Court Rivals Forums

malice · 2012-07-12 08:23:14

Sheesh... another forum: having a 'discussion' with a guy who is adamant that the current Olympic team would beat the original Dream Team.

tosweet68 · 2012-07-12 11:25:50

malice wrote:
Sheesh... another forum: having a 'discussion' with a guy who is adamant that the current Olympic team would beat the original Dream Team.

Is it Kobe?

RobNJ564 · 2012-07-12 14:03:25

malice wrote:
Sheesh... another forum: having a 'discussion' with a guy who is adamant that the current Olympic team would beat the original Dream Team.

I'm not sure there's another era in basketball history that could have fielded a Dream Tream that could have beat the original. Maybe late '60s/early '70s?

RobNJ564 · 2012-07-12 14:12:24

Giving this some more thought, I came up with this team circa 1968

G Oscar Robertson
G Hal Greer
G Dave Bing
G Earl Monroe
G Jerry West
G/F John Havlicek
F Elgin Baylor
F Nate Thurmond
F Jerry Lucas
F/C Elvin Hayes
C Wilt Chamberlain
C Bill Russell

Starting lineup would probably be Robertson-West-Baylor-Hayes-Chamberlain but really you couldn't go wrong. They might have beaten that original Dream Tream though.

danny220 · 2012-07-12 18:40:17

Scola amnestied... Woulden't be surprised to see Dwight end up in Houston.

DemonDeacs · 2012-07-12 21:11:46

USA playing a scrimmage against the Dominican Republic on ESPN right now, in case anyone didn't know.

Also, if interested, check out the pacific division draft grades: http://www.hoopsmith.com/2012/07/12/201 … -division/

team rohan · 2012-07-12 21:35:56

I don't know about NBA, but most sports have had crazy increases in professionalism and athletic ability etc since 1992.

tosweet68 · 2012-07-12 22:41:19

Thought this tweet was funny.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

The Rockets will soon have the space to absorb Orlando's Dwight Howard, Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, Chris Duhon and Epcot Center.

malice · 2012-07-13 00:05:40

I liked this tweet:
Marcel Mutoni ‏@marcel_mutoni
Sources: In one final desperate move, Daryl Morey has decided to use the amnesty provision on Daryl Morey.

It'd be interesting to see Houston get Dwight. Don't they just become Orlando West?

danny220 · 2012-07-13 00:08:15

malice wrote:
I liked this tweet:
Marcel Mutoni ‏@marcel_mutoni
Sources: In one final desperate move, Daryl Morey has decided to use the amnesty provision on Daryl Morey.

It'd be interesting to see Houston get Dwight. Don't they just become Orlando West?

Maybe not even. They will make the playoffs for the first time in a few years though.Probably the 7 seed or so. Don't see anyone beating Miami barring injury if Howard goes to Houston.

malice · 2012-07-13 00:19:56

Hmmm... I think OKC will be noticeably better for the experience. And I think LA have stepped it up a bit with the addition of Nash. SA are still up there in the general vicinity (tho' surely one day Timmy/Manu will slow down).

Oh. And Chicago. If they can manage to get to a top 5 finish, and Rose comes back healthy just prior to the playoffs - then they will compete.

-------------

Houston. So, around a 7-8 seed with around 42-45 wins? First round exit. Tell me: what's changed?

Last edited by malice (2012-07-13 00:21:39)

danny220 · 2012-07-13 00:24:56

Spurs will win a bunch of regular season games but their not title contenders. Just don't have any superstars. Same as last 2 years for them and Chicago (Rose is a superstar but don't see him leading a team to a title). I suppose OKC has a shot depending on how much better their "big 3" get. LA will be interesting to see how they play together. I do think Miami is far better than anyone though. Ray Allen shot 44% from 3 last season and he will get a ton of open 3's playing with Lebron and Wade.

danny220 · 2012-07-13 00:34:44

On Houston I really don't know what they have. lost Dragic, Lowry, Camby,Budinger, Courtney Lee,Dalembert.Lot of movement. Have no idea what they would give up for Howard. Maybe Martin,Parsons,Lamb,White and like 3 first rounders for Howard,Duhon,Richardson,Turk?They basically will be Orlando but in the West.

PG Livingston? Knicks will Match Lin
SG J Rich
SF Turk
PF Leur? Baby Davis?
C Howard

They can probably sneak in as the 6-8 seed. Dallas will regress. Won't beat out Spurs,OKC,LAL,LAC,MEM. Denver will be in the mix somewhere. Difference is they have a superstar (If Howard stays) basically impossible to win titles in the NBA without superstars. Much easier to add role players than it is to add a superstar.

malice · 2012-07-13 00:42:16

Dunno - Boston got him a shitload of open looks. Never seen a team get away with moving screens as much as they do. I honestly don't think Allen's going to get BETTER looks than he already did in Beantown. He's a year older, and the guy wasn't young last year. At times, he looked it. But yes: he is a bit of an upgrade from Mike Miller/James Jones.
Also don't get the song and dance about Lewis. Yes, not bad value for money, but he was AWFUL last year. Not sure he's an upgrade on Miller/Jones at all.

Now that Miami has their title, everyone seems to be forgetting some stuff.
- They absolutely lucked into Rose injuring himself.
- At times they looked completely awful. Getting past Indiana was a real bugbear for them.
- In no way, shape or form did OKC play as well as they did in the second half of the SA/OKC series. Not even close.
- They still haven't addressed the major fault in their team, and that's how much they struggle against teams with a strong interior presence. Had Hibbert played the same way the entire ECSF, Miami don't get past (on this, they are lucky - very few teams have a "strong interior presence" these days).
- They are still susceptible to opposing PGs. Offensively it doesn't matter - as James is absolutely capable of that role... but on D? Still holes there.

Yes, they're the defending champs. But they're not without some pretty glaring deficiencies.

Last edited by malice (2012-07-13 00:43:41)

malice · 2012-07-13 00:49:05

danny220 wrote:
On Houston I really don't know what they have. lost Dragic, Lowry, Camby,Budinger, Courtney Lee,Dalembert.Lot of movement. Have no idea what they would give up for Howard. Maybe Martin,Parsons,Lamb,White and like 3 first rounders for Howard,Duhon,Richardson,Turk?They basically will be Orlando but in the West.

PG Livingston? Knicks will Match Lin
SG J Rich
SF Turk
PF Leur? Baby Davis?
C Howard

They can probably sneak in as the 6-8 seed. Dallas will regress. Won't beat out Spurs,OKC,LAL,LAC,MEM. Denver will be in the mix somewhere. Difference is they have a superstar (If Howard stays) basically impossible to win titles in the NBA without superstars. Much easier to add role players than it is to add a superstar.

This is true. Except all that Houston getting Dwight means is that Dallas gets to have him the following season, and maybe Chris Paul as well (tho' I don't see Paul leaving LAC).

Teams out West I like:
LA
OKC
SA
Memphis
LAC
Minnesota (believe it or not - Rubio healthy, I think they make the playoffs! Especially if they land Batum)
Denver

5 of those 7 have Cs that can mitigate damage Dwight can cause. The West isn't the East, where basically he was the only fish in the pond.
I honestly don't see Houston - with what they've given away - being a top 6 team. Much less actually being top tier. Which means Dwight will walk (I think he does whether or no).

danny220 · 2012-07-13 02:16:23

malice wrote:
Now that Miami has their title, everyone seems to be forgetting some stuff.
- They absolutely lucked into Rose injuring himself.
- At times they looked completely awful. Getting past Indiana was a real bugbear for them.
- In no way, shape or form did OKC play as well as they did in the second half of the SA/OKC series. Not even close.
- They still haven't addressed the major fault in their team, and that's how much they struggle against teams with a strong interior presence. Had Hibbert played the same way the entire ECSF, Miami don't get past (on this, they are lucky - very few teams have a "strong interior presence" these days).
- They are still susceptible to opposing PGs. Offensively it doesn't matter - as James is absolutely capable of that role... but on D? Still holes there.

Yes, they're the defending champs. But they're not without some pretty glaring deficiencies.

I'm not big on Chicago at all. Don't think they could have beaten Miami anyways. They did struggle against Indiana but it was sans Bosh. Not that I'm big on Bosh but the Heat lack anything resembling front court depth. With Bosh that is probably a five game series. I agree OKC didn't play as good but I think Miami had something to do with that. Miami is far better defensively than the Spurs. Lebron can defend some Pg's really depends who it is. He locks down Rose. Miami does have glaring weaknesses but they have the best player in basketball and another top 5-10 player plus if Howard goes out West there really are no great offensive low post players out East.

SuperSlicer · 2012-07-13 03:59:56

I think Houston has a chance to be better than last season's ORL squad - emphasis on chance. I think Livingston can be an upgrade on Jameer Nelson if he's given the freedom to run PnRs with Dwight. If they use him any other way though, then he's not going to impress many people.

The Rockets have more frontcourt options than the Magic ever did because at least two of White, Jones, Morris, Motiejunas and Patterson will be left. If Lamb stays then they've got decent insurance if J-Rich regresses (I think he just had a bad year). Their biggest problem I think will be backcourt depth. If they can address that, then I think they're almost guaranteed to be better than ORL.

Not as easy as I'm making it sound, of course. I'm just not writing them off yet.

OctaneHugo · 2012-07-13 14:26:54

Kwame Brown. why do you do this to me, Sixers?

OctaneHugo · 2012-07-13 14:56:51

SuperSlicer wrote:
C'mon Hugo, you're always pessimistic. As long as I've known you on these boards!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I try to be a realist. I just don't like any of the moves they've made so far.

Seriously though, I think you're pigeon holing positions too much. Why can't ET rebound at the 1? Kidd had no problems getting boards there (not that ET compares to Kidd in any other way, except maybe he can't shoot...). If that's where he fits in the rotation, then so be it. Maybe Iggy can play with ET for those minutes Jrue is off the court so you're not definitively calling ET a PG.

I was looking at this the wrong way. even if you put ET at the point, now you're taking minutes away from Jrue (I guess you could put him at SG but I'd rather him play the 1). but even if you just say, alright, he's gonna backup Holiday and get some minutes at the 3, there's still the issue that him and Iguodala still haven't meshed at all. so it's kinda like, do you trade Iggy and pin all your hopes on a disappointing young player, or try to get something for Turner, or hope they learn to play together? It's just, in general, not a good situation, even if Turner starts to play better.

Young had a bad year, but he's capable of being a perimeter threat and he's more athletic than Meeks. Maybe not for $6m, but it is what it is. He's an upgrade over Meeks, and even though Lou is a better player, I think choosing not to make a long term commitment to Williams (and Young) was a good move. What about your own players, anyone coming up for an extension next season?

Young's best season he shot 44%. career mark is .429, and from 3 it's 38%. I just don't get it. even if he is better than Meeks (which he is just because of how flat-footed Meeks is - although, fun fact, Meeks had a better shooting percentage last season by .3) he's not much of an upgrade, or a starter, or someone who should even be seeing minutes in my opinion.

If you wanted, you could play Wright at the 2 and have Iggy guard the bigger threat out of opposing wings. I agree Hawes isn't all that good, if Allen were a little taller I'd prefer to play him at the 5 and just give Spencer the flick, but that's obviously not possible.

now they have Kwame Brown...maybe they could team him and Hawes up for the worst 4-5 combo in the NBA? that'll be fun to watch. I guess the only real hope for this team to have a good front court is if Allen keeps being great and either Moultrie or Vucevic emerges as a good starting C.

The Harkless pick was strange, BPA? Maybe Zeller, or trade down for a Marquis Teague? They'd at least fill positions of need (and in trading down gain assets instead of losing them). Still, the Young and Wright moves were the ones that created the logjam, not Harkless.

Harkless contributed to it. before the draft, they had Thaddeus/Iggy/Turner, with the hope that they could address their needs through the draft/free agency, and then they got Harkless (up to 4), got Nick Young (5), got Wright (6). Harkless was the beginning of the end for any hopes they wouldn't stockpile these kinds of guys again. and the worst part is he's pure potential.

I wouldn't mind Iggy on the Suns (check: LOVE), what do you reckon his value is? (and Thad's?)

I dunno...I know people around here have speculated about Iggy + something for Pau Gasol, but I don't think the Lakers would do that...I'm not sure what you could get for Iggy+Young. not worth much by themselves because neither are elite scorers, together I think you're taking too much away for whatever you'll get (losing your best player who's one of the best defenders/passers in the league + a good bench option whose main issue is he doesn't fit the team makeup all that well). I don't think you could get a valuable draft pick and the trade prospects that seem realistic don't excite me.

off the Suns...Beasley's a decent player but we don't really need him. I wanted Morris to drop to us last season so I wouldn't mind that, but not for both Iggy and Thad. I dunno.

Dukester100 · 2012-07-13 19:15:53

Looking at it now, I'm almost glad the Nets dropped out of the running for Dwight. MarShon Brooks is absolutely tearing up the summer league, albeit it is the summer league. But when you look at what Houston is giving up just for Dwight, it's a shitload with all the players they have to get rid of. Nets still have their five first round picks, Humphries, Brook, Brooks, and their team. And they're still a playoff team.

I'm pumped. I'm going to the home opener in Brooklyn - gonna be fucking nuts.

tosweet68 · 2012-07-13 23:29:04

Dwight update: Not close to a trade with Rockets

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/1 … h-rockets/

________________________________________________________________________________________

Motiejunas, Lamb and T Jones all looked good in their first summer league game with the Rockets today.

Last edited by tosweet68 (2012-07-13 23:30:16)

RobNJ564 · 2012-07-14 08:44:49

I'm not gonna defend Kwame Brown or these other head scratchers but for the millionth time, Evan Turner CANNOT play the 3. He has ZERO athleticism. He's a 1 or a ball handling 2. That's ALL he is.

SuperSlicer · 2012-07-14 09:55:35

Why does athleticism matter? Grant Hill, Paul Pierce, Ron Artest, Danny Granger, Carmelo Anthony are all guys I can think of that play the 3 with average to below-average athleticism, and they've all been pretty effective at some point in their careers. I'm not saying ET SHOULD play SF, I'm just saying a lack of athleticism doesn't preclude him from playing SF. It's not like you'd have him guarding the LeBrons and the Durants of the world anyway... pretty sure that's why Iggy's still on the roster.

RobNJ564 · 2012-07-14 11:36:52

Hill, Granger and Anthony are all bigger players than Turner and played that way, especially Anthony with his propensity to post up. Ron Artest was quite a bit more athletic than Turner at his age. Pierce was a far more polished scorer than Turner at the same point in their careers. What does Evan Turner give you at the 3? Nothing. He doesn't have size, he doesn't have quickness, he's not a good outside shot. He can defend and ball handle the exact same as he can at one of the guard positions only he's trying to do it against players with more size and ups than he has.

Also, Octane doesn't say Turner CAN play the 3. He says he IS a 3. That's his natural position. To me, that's obviously not the case.

SuperSlicer · 2012-07-14 19:45:46

Fair enough. I think it's much of a muchness though, positions are just labels these days.

Court Rivals Forums

#11951 2012-07-12 08:23:14

Re: NBA

#11952 2012-07-12 11:25:50

Re: NBA

malice wrote:

#11953 2012-07-12 14:03:25

Re: NBA

malice wrote:

#11954 2012-07-12 14:12:24

Re: NBA

#11955 2012-07-12 18:40:17

Re: NBA

#11956 2012-07-12 21:11:46

Re: NBA

#11957 2012-07-12 21:35:56

Re: NBA

#11958 2012-07-12 22:41:19

Re: NBA

#11959 2012-07-13 00:05:40

Re: NBA

#11960 2012-07-13 00:08:15

Re: NBA

malice wrote:

#11961 2012-07-13 00:19:56

Re: NBA

#11962 2012-07-13 00:24:56

Re: NBA

#11963 2012-07-13 00:34:44

Re: NBA

#11964 2012-07-13 00:42:16

Re: NBA

#11965 2012-07-13 00:49:05

Re: NBA

danny220 wrote:

#11966 2012-07-13 02:16:23

Re: NBA

malice wrote:

#11967 2012-07-13 03:59:56

Re: NBA

#11968 2012-07-13 14:26:54

Re: NBA

#11969 2012-07-13 14:56:51

Re: NBA

SuperSlicer wrote:

#11970 2012-07-13 19:15:53

Re: NBA

#11971 2012-07-13 23:29:04

Re: NBA

#11972 2012-07-14 08:44:49

Re: NBA

#11973 2012-07-14 09:55:35

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Re: NBA

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